Chemical-Free PCB Production: How uFab is Changing Everything

Join host Zach Peterson on the Altium OnTrack Podcast as he interviews Tyler Richards, founder of uFab, who is revolutionizing PCB manufacturing with chemical-free production technology. Discover how Tyler's innovative PCBee system can print multi-layer circuit boards in just 4 hours without using traditional chemical etchants like ferric chloride or cupric chloride.

From his early days as a high school freelancer on Upwork to founding a company that's changing desktop PCB fabrication, Tyler shares his journey and the technology behind uFab's game-changing approach. Learn about their laser-based manufacturing process that supports everything from FR-4 to flex materials, Rogers substrates, and even ceramic boards - all with feature sizes down to 2 mil and via sizes as small as 7-8 mil.

Watch the Episode:

More Resources:

• Learn More about Ufab
• Connect with Tyler

Transcript:

Zach Peterson 

Excuse me. Alright, here we go.

Hello everyone and welcome to the Altium OnTrack podcast. I'm your host, Zach Peterson. Today we're talking with Tyler Richards, founder of UFAB. Tyler founded UFAB and his systems take desktop printing to the next level. And I wouldn't even really call it desktop printing because these machines are really a whole different beast altogether. So I'm very happy to be talking with Tyler today. Tyler, thank you so much for being here.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Zach Peterson 

Yeah, I'm glad that somebody introduced you to me because I have considered many times to get a desktop etching or laser laser etching system or whatever it is. And I haven't really viewed them as kind of like a production thing. And when I saw your system, I said to myself, OK, this feels like production. Great.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, and that's kind of what we want to go for, Is like fab quality without necessarily needing a fab to do it, if that makes sense. Yeah.

Zach Peterson 

Sure.

Yeah, and the other thing I noticed is looking at your system, didn't look like you... I mean, you need some kind of facility, but not like the 50,000 square foot kind of facility that you typically associate with a PCB FAB.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting. So we operate of a 1,300 square foot facility. And one of our customers who's also using our machine, it's essentially a cabinet inside of about a 500 square foot development lab. maybe not desktop printing, but more like cabinet printing.

Zach Peterson 

Sure, Well, before we get into the UFAB system, if you could just tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got started in electronics.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, so I've been kind of obsessed with electronics from a very early age. Like, you know, back in, I was like 10 years old and Radio Shack, the local Radio Shack had just started stocking Arduinos. And so I got pretty obsessed with that. I was kind of into the maker movement and everything like that. I subscribed to Make Magazine. And so, you know, that kind of flourished and then in...

high school in about 2015, I actually started doing freelance design work. So there was a platform called Upwork and they were relatively new at the time, I believe. And I found freelance design gigs and was getting paid to do that instead of getting a real job. And did that pretty much up through college actually. And so I've just been doing electronics my whole life.

Zach Peterson

You know, I got to be honest, Upwork is how I found some of my first consulting gigs when I was getting out of academia and going into industry, although I was not a high school student at the time. So that's very cool that you were doing that.

Tyler | uFab 

I. Well, I don't think most of my customers knew that I was a high school student, so it came as a shock to them. Sometimes when we called and then they got, you know this this little kid basically doing their their board design. But yeah, up up works interesting platform for sure. I think there's a lot of freelance platforms out there now. So it's it's a interesting world.

Zach Peterson 

Yeah, yeah, definitely. So you've gone from freelance board designing when you're younger all the way up now to where you have your own company, you have this impressive system. If you could tell us about UFAB and your product.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, yeah, so I typically start by talking about why I started Ufab in the first place. And I want you to kind of step back to like 2020 when the COVID lockdown started and every single PCB fab shut down, right? And you couldn't get stuff into the country and it was just terrible, right? And as a freelancer,

It was actually my fault, according to my customers, that we couldn't get boards into the country, right? Because they had no idea about supply chains. And so that's when I started really thinking about in-house circuit board production and Rapid Fab. And so towards the end of university, I essentially pitched this idea of Rapid Fab and was able to kind of get an angel investor and get some fundraising done to build out this prototype machine.

And the real focus was commercial grade fabrication as fast as possible without using traditional chemical etching like ferric chloride or cupric chloride. And so what ended up happening was essentially the first product that we built was a laser manufacturing machine. We call it the PCB, spelled PCBEE.

It is a ultra rapid circuit board printer so we can print multi-layer boards in about four hours or less without using chemical etchants or really any of the kind of nasty stuff associated with traditional fab.

Zach Peterson 

So without revealing any of the proprietary stuff, if you could tell us what makes the PCB system different from some of the existing desktop systems. Because you have stuff out there that's like, you can do laser etching. So there some of those machines. It's basically numerically controlled laser. And then you also have 3D printing systems out there. But I mean, those systems are prohibitively expensive.

Tyler | uFab 

Mm-hmm.

Zach Peterson 

put them in a basement somewhere and work on parts for satellites with those systems. So what makes your system different? Whether it's the technology or the user interface or whatever.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, I mean it's a lot actually, technology, user interface, et cetera. I think the biggest thing is that we aim to support as broad of a design space as possible. So we're really focused on, if you utilize our machine, you can take the boards that you've designed and iterated on our machine and take that design without any kind of changes and put it into mass manufacturing. So that really starts with utilizing.

the same materials that traditional fabs use. So like we were using FR4, we buy our flex materials from DuPont and Panasonic, you know, we're buying Rogers materials for like ceramic boards. And, you know, so these are like full copper circuit boards, as opposed to like centered metals or conductive pastes or something like that, where, you know, you can kind of run into impedance design issues where like a conductive paste obviously doesn't have the same

impedance characteristics as say a copper trace, right? And then going beyond that, you know, we really try to focus on making boards that are identical in function and spec as a traditional fab. And so, you know, that's one aspect of it. There's also the integration of the ecosystem. So one of the big complaints that I heard was like the software is impossible to use or you need hours of training to understand how to use it.

So we built out our software to essentially step you through every single production step with videos, text explanations, infographics, etc. to make sure that you're not lost or you don't need to spend hours training somebody on using the system. And then there's some other things that we do, small scale. We don't try to...

We don't try and sell a gigantic machine, things like that. have miniature presses, like desktop presses for PCB lamination, which is fun. And yeah, no tooling, no masking, no chemical etching. mean, we really try to make it as easy as possible.

Zach Peterson 

Yeah, it sounds like it, especially eliminating the etchants. I think that's really the big one that the desktop systems or as you called it, the cabinet level systems or the 3D printing systems, they always talk about that and making it more environmentally friendly and sustainable and all of that kind of stuff. yeah, the etchants are a challenge. If you look at what some of the makers do at home, there really isn't a lot of, I don't think there's a lot of concern for safety. They're still using etchants at home.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, it's a little concerning when I see, you know, posts on forums and stuff, people talking about just pouring ferric chloride down the drain. I'm like, gosh, your pipes are probably not there anymore.

Zach Peterson 

Yeah, that's true. That's true. So you've mentioned, I think, a couple types of designs that the system can support, right? You brought up flex materials, and then you'd even mentioned Rogers, so PTFE materials. And then can you do things like ceramic? Can you do metal core, those types of designs?

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, so we I've been hard pressed to find a material that we haven't been able to print onto. Honestly, I've printed on so I've got some samples here if you you'd like me to show, but yeah, so this is a this is a 3D printer stepper driver. See if that comes across there, but this is just a traditional FR4 board. You know, so this was done entirely on our machine. The drilling through holes.

Zach Peterson 

yeah, absolutely.

Tyler | uFab 

silkscreen, solder mask, et cetera.

Zach Peterson 

That's the next thing I was going to ask was the silk screen and the solder mask. You're actually doing it inside the machine.

Tyler | uFab 

Yes, yes, which is no masking, which is really cool. And we can talk about that in just a bit. But we're also doing things like flex. And let's see here, I don't think I have a Rogers sample here, but we've printed on Rogers 4000, TMM-6. Again, it's been really tough to find a material we haven't printed on. And what's cool is that

Again, going back to that that manufacturability idea, we get down to about 50 micron or two mil feature sizes. So, you know, BGA parts, high density designs, all that fun stuff.

Zach Peterson 

This is that that makes it pretty competitive with some of the more advanced processing that's available from traditional manufacturers. Because I mean, I've had designs that are pushing towards two mil and they've got no bid at one place and you you have to take them somewhere else and they have a process that'll do two mils or I've had to, you know, put it with someone in Taiwan. But you're like, yeah, two mils, go for it.

Tyler | uFab 

Yes.

Tyler | uFab 

Well, you know, it's actually kind of funny. our laser can actually, the spot size itself is about 20 microns. So theoretically, we could get smaller than 2 mil. But that, if people start asking for bids on those projects, I get a little scared because it's probably some sort of very specific design.

Zach Peterson 

Sure, sure. Now that's understandable. mean, so that's the density, right? It's two mil in terms of feature size and then two mil spacing, correct? Okay. And then what about like via sizes? What about layer counts?

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, yeah.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, so we use the same laser system for drilling, so we can actually get down to about 7 mil, 8 mil minimum drill size. These drills, these vias are plated. We have a proprietary plating system, which I can talk about for a really long time. But yeah, so we have a rapid plating system that allows us to do 7, 8 mil vias.

I'm sorry, I'm blanking. Your other question. layer counts. Yeah, so we've confirmed up to four layers. We're qualifying six plus right now. I mean, there isn't really any reason why we can't do higher layer counts. I can show you right here. So our carrier boards that get fed into the machine, they actually have fiducials and kind of locking pins built into them.

Zach Peterson 

Yeah, yeah.

Tyler | uFab 

So it's very simple to take your board and take your next panel and stick them together and laminate them together to build your stack up. And so really the thing that's been holding me back this far has just been time and qualification steps. We're a startup, so we have to move pretty quickly. We're also qualifying Rigidflex right now, actually.

Zach Peterson 

I see, I see.

Tyler | uFab 

which has been exciting. mean, if we can do the rigid boards and we can do the flexible boards, why not put them together?

Zach Peterson 

Yeah, you preempted my question there was if you can do rigid flex. So the overall process here is basically somebody takes your feeder boards, they're doing it layer by layer. At the end of it, going to press everything together. Then they're going to put it back in the machine, go through your plating process to plate all their through holes, and then that's it. They're done.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, and beyond the, you know, the solder masking and silk screening steps or with flex that's typically a cover lay process and we're just using like a DuPont PyRelux cover lay there. So, you know, very traditional materials. And then yeah, you have your functional board really quickly.

Zach Peterson 

Right, of course.

Zach Peterson 

So then I assume that means you also have support for blinded buried views.

Tyler | uFab 

So I actually, again, that's another thing that we're qualifying. There isn't any reason why we shouldn't be able to do those things. But again, we have to kind of structure our product development. And that's a little bit farther down the line on our qualifications. But yeah, I mean, there shouldn't be a reason why we can't.

Zach Peterson 

Sure.

Now I have a question for you here also about the vias. So what you're doing with your through holes is you're drilling through layer by layer and then laminating and then you're plating through on those whole walls. But it's not like a, how do I put this? It's not like stacking vias to form a through hole, because you're actually plating the entire wall all in run run.

Tyler | uFab 

No. Yeah.

Yeah, so we can do the drilling beforehand. We can do the drilling afterwards. You can do intermediate drilling steps because yeah, when you're building that stack up, you're obviously going to have your laminate in between your vias, right? So you need to you need to punch out that laminate. Typically, especially right now, since we're not doing blind and buried, we do the drilling step last so that we can laminate everything together and then do a single drill operation to then plate.

But yeah, you can do it a lot of different ways.

Zach Peterson 

And then is there any layer thickness or board thickness restriction with your system? Because normally with laser drilling, there's aspect ratio limits depending on the diameter of the hole you're trying to place. And then obviously, if you go to really small laser drill microvias, you've got some serious depth limitations. But you're all the way up at 8 mil, 7 mil diameter. So I would imagine you could probably get pretty far above 1 on your drilling aspect ratio.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, so this is like a this is a 1.6 millimeter, you know board here and I mean we etched through where we drill through these no problem we the the the Optical system that we've built has allowed us to be able to drill through these materials relatively easily with with pretty high aspect ratios

Zach Peterson 

Okay.

Zach Peterson 

Awesome, awesome, okay. And then what's the maximum size of a PCB you can print? Or how, guess you're feeding in these feeder panels, right? So that's kind of where you're starting from. So how big are those panels?

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, so right now we have two configurations that we sell. We have a 5x5 inch printer and a 6x6 inch printer. But what's really interesting, what we've really seen a lot of demand for is a full panel printer, actually. So there isn't really any technical reason why we can't print across an entire panel beyond just the build of the machine, the mechanics of the machine.

is the actual operation scales quite nicely. So what we're doing right now is we're actually building essentially a fab in a box where you can print a circuit board on a full panel and do the etching, the drilling, the lamination, silkscreen solder mask, etc. But right now it is 5 inch by 5 inch or 6 inch by 6 inch.

Zach Peterson

Okay.

Zach Peterson

Okay, okay. So yeah, so you could basically do a small panel of, you know, smaller boards, right? If you had a little, you know, let's say half inch by one inch boards, you make your own panel and put it in there.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, yeah, and the goal is in the near term, we don't have that size restriction anymore and we can just take a panel from a manufacturer and process it fully.

Zach Peterson 

OK, OK. So if somebody did that, they had these small boards on your six by six inch feeders, and they put them through your system, what depanelization features can you support? Would they have to plan to like mill out a route path on a separate machine and then maybe have mouse bites to do depanelization?

Tyler | uFab 

So yeah, we actually, again, because the laser can do drilling, we do the depanelization in the machine. So traditionally, if you think of a V-score or something like that, where you're kind limited by the linearity of the boards, or with milling, you have to worry about your bit breaking or something like that, we can just drill straight out of the panel. So you can get really, really close.

Zach Peterson 

Nice.

Tyler | uFab 

you can keep everything relatively close together. like, I've got a panel, this is a flex panel that I processed and I've kind of done some other stuff to it as well, but these are all flex PCBs that we kept about a millimeter from each other and we just drilled them out with the laser and called it a day.

Zach Peterson 

Nice, nice. Now that's really cool, right? Because you can just do it all in one system again. And I know that some of those other methods with like milling out a route path or, forbid, you have to do v-scoring can get pretty inaccurate, especially when you take this thing to scale and they're just kind of slicing through real quick with that pizza cutter.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah Yeah, yeah, and and I've seen a lot of cases where people put their traces You know right up on the edge of the board and then the traces get destroyed by a vScore machine or you know a router or something like that, so this is really nice for designs that have you know pretty tight tolerances around the edges

Zach Peterson 

Sure, sure. So I'm interested to know what is the cost comparison to working with your machine versus going through a traditional process? Because your type of machine is the kind of thing that I think proponents of US PCB manufacturing, myself being one of those, would look at and say, hey, maybe we need to totally rethink.

the whole fab process and focus on something different. And you're offering what looks like a pretty viable alternative. You talk about scaling it out to larger panel sizes, which I think makes perfect sense. But at the end of the day, if a company was going to build a facility with 100 of these printers, they've got to see how it pencils out financially. So how does all that cost compare?

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, so it's actually really interesting because right so take for instance the chemical waste right associated with traditional PCB fab. In our case right on a panelized on a panel printer, you're not paying for that chemical those chemicals themselves, but you're also not paying for the waste disposal fees associated with that. You're not paying for the licensure to utilize those fees. You're not, you know, paying the insurance associated with.

having those chemicals in your facility, right? So, you know, there's an economic argument associated with that, but there's also like an environmental one as well. You know, a lot of these chemicals are hard to get rid of. Dissolved coppers or, you know, copper ions are super, super toxic to aquatic life. But, you know, what I find really fun is, you know, our proto printer runs on a 120 volt, 15 amp wall outlet.

right? So the actual electrical consumption associated with etching these boards is quite small. I think our current protoprinter only draws about 800 watts peak from the wall. And so you can imagine scaling that to a panel. The electrical cost is actually not that bad compared to what it costs to run an etchant.

bath and a large mill and all that stuff. So it's really interesting. you know, I think another consideration is like the CO2 associated with shipping boards across the Pacific Ocean, right? So if you're buying boards from overseas and shipping them to the States, there's a cost to that as well. So it's a really interesting thing, not to mention the CAPEX associated with creating a facility, right?

which again, I could talk about that all day.

Zach Peterson 

Yeah, yeah. Well, and there's a couple of points I think that you highlighted that are really interesting here too, which is, you mentioned the environmental factor. I would imagine that that expands the number of places you could produce. And because you've eliminated all those etchants, you've probably eliminated a lot of environmental regulations that you would have to follow in certain parts of the country.

So it expands the number of locations where you could produce. You don't just have to produce in places that are much friendlier to manufacturing and maybe don't have the same level of environmental restrictions that you do in other parts of the country. And then the other thing that I think is interesting is it might allow you to produce closer to your customers. So you brought up the shipping and logistics aspect.

And if you can produce closer to the customer, of course you've eliminated all of that.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, I mean that's a great point, especially the location thing. I'm based in St. Louis, Missouri right now, it didn't even, I guess, because I didn't have to go seek out those permits and everything, because we're not using chemicals, it didn't even occur to me that it's kind of a special thing that there's a PCB manufacturer nestled in the center of St. Louis. So yeah, I think that's a great point.

Zach Peterson 

Okay, okay. So yeah, this is the kind of thing where, you know, I think it makes a lot of sense to set up a lot of smaller facilities closer to your customers, rather than set up one big facility, try to navigate the permitting process, and then ship boards all over the country.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, one of the examples I've had mentioned to me is like the airline industry and the hub and spoke model versus the point to point model. You know, the efficiency in kind of making manufacturing smaller and smaller batches but closer is a very compelling argument.

Zach Peterson

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would agree. So at the end of the day, you know, when people see this, they got to get interested in it. And so I'm wondering what has been the response from other folks in the industry.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, it's been overall, I think the reaction's been one of a mix of surprise in that we can actually do this, but also excitement in the technology. I've had people literally ask me for samples because they didn't believe me that we were kind of doing what I was saying we were doing, right? So it's always fun to send something to somebody and be like, I told you, but.

Zach Peterson 

you

Zach Peterson 

Yeah.

Tyler | uFab 

But you know, it's been cool to see the excitement generated around this. You know, we have a couple of, you know, really interesting projects that I can't talk about right now, unfortunately, but hopefully, you know, on our LinkedIn or our website, you'll see something soon. But, you know, one of the really interesting areas has been the education space. One of the things that I've been told by professors is that, you know, the current lead times associated with production is

kind of circuit teaching circuit board design kind of difficult in a 14 week, you know, class period, right? So bringing that production close to home and getting rid of those lead times would be huge for educating the next generation of engineers.

Zach Peterson 

If I could jump in on that lead time point, right? The other factor that has cost because there are quick turn shops that will do it in 48 hours, let's say, like you got to really throw some gobs of money at them to get them to do it. And that's also not really feasible for printed circuit board class.

Tyler | uFab 

Yes, yes.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, yeah, I agree. mean, when you go to some of these manufacturers, they'll quote you $500 a board for rapid turn. And one of the things that we've been doing recently, we have some production capability in our facility for doing board runs. So we actually offer a 24-hour quick turn service. So customers can actually go to our website and order boards and get them in 24 hours or less. And we do the same thing with like, you know.

We print stencils as well. So it's very interesting and exciting and opens up a lot of new avenues for doing business.

Zach Peterson 

Now, you know, there are some industries that are pretty conservative, right? There's, you know, of course, military aerospace, automotive. think those are the big three where you could really get a lot of growth. But of course, there's a lot of qualification that goes into it. Of course, you know, human people's lives, you know, depend on these electronics. So, you know, you have to be able to prove that it's reliable. How far down that rabbit hole of proving reliability have you gone?

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, I mean, I think we have talked to some people in the defense space and the automotive space. again, reliability is the biggest thing there. I think beyond just the qualification that we've done of showing cross-sections of boards and printed boards, et cetera, I think just printing more boards and showing that it works is

one of the easiest ways of showing that the technology actually works. But we're also looking for partners in those industries, honestly, right now. People who are willing to say, hey, this is interesting, hey, this could totally change how we do manufacturing, let's work on this together.

Zach Peterson 

Well, and one thing I guess I'm getting into in terms of reliability is a lot of times, specs will quote like certain IPC test standards, right? Like peel tests, that kind of thing. I guess because you're working with traditional materials and you're able to use a lamination press, even if it's a desktop lamination press, you still have a very high chance of hitting those reliability standards.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, yeah, I mean, we're doing the same things. mean, not necessarily the same things, but we're doing the things that are necessary to produce these boards in a way that produces a reliable board, right? So we're adhering to the same lamination standards that everybody else is when they use a DuPont PyRelux product, for instance. So yeah, I do think that reliability is a concern, but it's something that we can easily achieve.

Zach Peterson 

Sure, sure. So what's your company's growth trajectory? You've talked or you mentioned that you're looking for partners, you've talked to folks in aerospace. Where do you see your growth path?

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, you know, right now we've got some, like I said, we've got some very interesting projects happening and I hope to kind of show those off soon. Growth wise, you know, beyond the proto sphere, I think that mass manufacturing and bringing this manufacturing method to the larger manufacturing space is the way that we need to go. And, you know, I...

looking for customers and all that fun stuff.

Yeah, I... Sorry, I... Yeah, no, I... man, I just had a bit of a heatwave. It's like 100 degrees outside right now and our AC is struggling, so... That's fun to look at. I'm a little shiny here. Yeah, if we could do that over again, I'd really appreciate it. Yeah.

Zach Peterson 

Ha ha.

Happens to all of us.

Zach Peterson 

No, I understand.

Zach Peterson 

Yeah, yeah, that's fine. Just start over with your answer. We'll edit it in.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, yeah, I think the growth, the.

The growth has promising. We've got some projects again that are, you know, we hope to announce soon. We're talking with potential partners right now. We're building out that panel, full panel processing. I really think that the way to go is the mass manufacturing space because that's going to do the most good and change the most about the industry and then kind of

keep the domestic American production market competitive globally. I think that's one of the things that is really great about the United States is that when we run into problems, we innovate out of them. So it's an exciting time to be in the PCB fab space.

Zach Peterson 

Yeah, definitely. think my last question, because we are getting up here on time, my last question is, do you think it's possible that the existing manufacturers will switch over to this type of system or maybe offer it as an option on certain designs? Or do you think they're just too dug in? Because the shops that are in the US today, you know, they're

The number has been dropping. And I think if you wanted to increase that number, they're going to have to adopt a system like this. But I also am concerned that they're so overly invested in their current process, their current facilities, their current equipment, that this is just, it just totally goes against the reason they exist as a company. And I kind of get concerned that they are not going to be willing

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah.

Zach Peterson 

to change to a new process when it becomes available.

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, mean, you've perfectly described the sunk cost fallacy, right? And, you know, I think there, I mean, I've already encountered people who are like, well, we've already put too much money into our, you know, our current facilities, and this is just not something we're not, we're not, we don't want to take a risk. And that's fair. But I also think, you know, the companies that do innovate and the companies that do, you know, try new things are the ones that survive.

And if the US PCB manufacturing industry wants to stay competitive and survive, it needs to look into technologies like this. Because there's no way to put the genie back in the bottle in terms of overseas manufacturing and whatnot. So we really have to innovate and try new things.

Zach Peterson 

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Totally agree. Tyler, this has been extremely informative, very cool, and very exciting. And I know it's a slow path forward. I sometimes feel like the pace is glacial for great companies. But I wish you absolutely all the best. And I'm hoping that the fabs that I use will one day adopt a system like this and start using it, because it sounds.

like it's such a major game changer. So thank you for being on the podcast today.

Tyler | uFab 

Hey, thanks for having me. This has been a real pleasure and I've really enjoyed this. It's been fun.

Zach Peterson 

Absolutely. Where can folks go to learn more about your company and the PCB system?

Tyler | uFab 

Yeah, so our website is u-fab.co. The dash is a hyphen. And then you can learn more on our LinkedIn as well. Look up, you know, UFab Corporation on LinkedIn. you know, I can be reached directly at tyler at u-fab.co.

Zach Peterson 

Awesome, awesome. Okay, if anybody's interested, highly encourage you to go learn more about UFAB and the PCB system. Tyler, thanks again. Absolutely. To everyone that's out there listening, we've been talking with Tyler Richards, founder of UFAB. If you're watching on YouTube, make sure to hit the like button, hit the subscribe button, and you'll be able to keep up with all of our podcast episodes and tutorials as they come out. And last but not least, don't stop learning, stay on track, and we'll see you next time.

Tyler | uFab 

Hey, thank you. Have a good one.

Zach Peterson 

Thanks everybody.