Revolutionizing Marine Conservation with Ocean Eye ft. Sari Tolvanen

Dive into marine conservation on Octopart's CTRL+LISTEN Podcast! Join hosts Nora and James as they chat with Sari Tolvanen from Ocean Eye, a pioneering platform for marine conservation data. Discover the use of the "Internet of Underwater Things" for recording marine animal sightings and learn how tourists can contribute to conservation. Sari discusses the gamification of exploration and the role of technology in future conservation efforts. Explore Ocean Eye's recent recognition, winning UpLink's Top Innovator Award, and its impact on collaboration. Whether you're a marine enthusiast or curious about tech and conservation, this podcast is a must-listen!

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Episode Highlights:

• Introduction
• Mission Unveiled
• Innovative Technology
• Gamifying Exploration
• Getting Involved

Links and Resources:

• Learn more about OceanEye here
• Connect with Sari on LinkedIn
• Follow OceanEye on Instagram

Transcript:

James Sweetlove: Hi and welcome to Octopart's CTRL+LISTEN Podcast. I'm Nora and this is my co-host James. And today, we have joining us Sari Tolvanen from Ocean Eye. And Ocean Eye is a marine conservation data collection and financial transfer platform. And we're very excited to have you here to tell us more about your project. So getting right into it, how did you come to start Ocean Eye and what is your mission?

Sari Tolvanen:  Yeah, big question. Yeah, thank you, very nice to be here. So my background is marine biology. So I'm a marine biologist and I've been working in marine conservation for over 20 years. And how I innovated and came across in developing Ocean Eye, was kind of just being very confronted with the problems we have in conservation that we wanna protect marine animals, we wanna create protected areas. But then we often end up in conflict that the people who live in those areas, need to be making a living and they wanna keep catching and often killing a lot of the animals that we're trying to protect, so sharks and rays and turtles and valuable fish and others. So there's a conflict between what we need to do to preserve nature and then there's the livelihood of conflict. And I was trying to find solutions to this through my work. And then I realized that there's place for financial innovation and a completely new approach and how we reward people for conservation. Yeah, that's how it started.

James Sweetlove:  Wow! And what area were you based in and doing most of your research initially? Just curious.

Sari Tolvanen:  Yeah, I've worked globally, I worked for NGOs globally. But for the last nine years, I've been based in Indonesia in Bali and working in a Coral Triangle area and Southeast Asia a lot. So it's obviously a beautiful, very marine, biodiverse area and very popular with tourists, especially with diving. But then there is also a lot of coastal communities that depend on the marine environment. So it gave me a lot of inspiration, I guess.

Nora Berman: Wow!

James Sweetlove:  I know that a key part of your company's plan, is the Internet of Underwater Things. For people, who haven't heard that term before, do you wanna explain what that means?

Sari Tolvanen:   Yeah, I really like it that you're calling that, the Internet of Underwater Things. So basically what Ocean Eye is for, is for people recording select marine animal sightings when they are on the water or underwater. And then they start obviously collecting data that is very valuable and often expensive to get. So you contribute to the data collection, but then also through Ocean Eye, you will receive a small invoice at the end of your trip or your holiday where we'd be pricing these animal sightings. So it could be something very cheap. If you see a lot of small fish, it could just be like 10 cents, or if you run into a blue whale, it could be $50. This is obviously a very valuable experience. And then through Ocean Eye, we actually transfer that money to the coastal community that lives in the vicinity of that area and who would traditionally or otherwise, either be hunting or killing all these animals, or who are kind of the custodians for this area and who keep the water base clean and plastic-free and free of fishing gear or whatever, so these animals can continue to thrive. So it's a kind of tourist and visitor-led reward system for the coastal communities for supporting marine conservation. So that's that concept, yeah.

James Sweetlove:  Love that.

Nora Berman: Wow! I love how it's like the gamification of exploration that you, it's almost like Pokemon Go or something.

Sari Tolvanen:  Yeah, there's some-

Sari Tolvanen: Real life.

Sari Tolvanen: Yeah, currently, we have the MVP ready, so we have the basic functions of how to set species and locations and how people can donate. But there's a lot of scope for the coastal communities to start competing and gamifying for the people to get rewards of different types for seeing different type of things, tokens, all kinds of things. So yeah, there's a lot of add-ons that we will work on, over time.

Nora Berman: Yeah, it can evolve in a variety of ways. I'm curious like what is the form of the data when, so if I'm a tourist and I'm going to explore and I see a rare turtle, do I take a picture, or am I saying like where I saw it, like how is that, like what is the specifics of that data and how is it communicated or recorded and given to you?

Sari Tolvanen: Yeah, so they don't have to, at this point, take photos. The photos are already there. So you can just choose what you saw and then the algorithm will give you the idea of how much it will cost if you want to make it, it's obviously voluntary. You can also just submit a data that you saw it. So for each kind of site that wants to participate, we select the most vulnerable and most important animals for that area. So they are like preloaded in there. And then obviously, if you see something kind of outside of the ordinary, you can still search for it and add it there yourself. So there's a few different ways of doing it and there's also some kind of, AI is obviously developing very fast for underwater cameras and others. So there's a possibility that we could join up with some of those. So then it automatically would identify what you saw and record it and make it a bit quicker and easier.

Nora Berman: Wow!

Sari Tolvanen:  And take away the human error of what you really wanted to see, versus what you probably saw.

Sari Tolvanen: And with the distribution of that money donated to the coastal communities, how do you decide who gets it and how it's distributed amongst those communities?

Sari Tolvanen: Yeah, so we try and have as little say on it as possible, because obviously, I'm not an expert on all of these coastal communities and what would be best for them. So we reach out to either directly to the community, or NGOs or others, who are already working with some of these communities. Especially if there's very remote or indigenous communities, we'll try and get a direct contact and then the community can select the suitable person to receive the money, who's already trusted and kind of handles money on behalf of the community. And then they can select what they want to spend the money on. So we have projects where, for example, the money might be spent on environmental education, on some other projects in the community, environmental restoration, all kinds of things. So we try and be a bit neutral on what they want to do with it obviously.

James Sweetlove: I really like the fact that it kind of incentivizes these communities to value the marine life from a conservation standpoint as opposed to an exploitation standpoint. Yeah, it turns it on its head and I like that.

Sari Tolvanen: Yeah, yeah and the community-

Nora Berman: Yeah, it's also very generative.

Sari Tolvanen: Yeah, the community have their own kind of side of the app where they have their own logins. And then they can see how many animals and what animals are being seen and how much money they earn. And they also asked us to, they can see which nationalities are giving the most money. They asked for this function.

James Sweetlove: Interesting.

Sari Tolvanen:  Yeah.

Nora Berman: Oh, wow!

Sari Tolvanen:  And I was asking them, "What data would you like to see?" They were like, "We wanna see the most generous nationalities, them ranked." So that's what they see. So they can, we don't kind of need to keep preaching. They can pretty quickly see that the animals are worth more alive than if you just sell it once.

Sari Tolvanen:  Right.

Nora Berman: Yeah.

James Sweetlove:  Fantastic.

Nora Berman: Yeah.

James Sweetlove:  Yeah, yeah.

Nora Berman: Yeah, I mean, it's interesting that like the more awareness of the animal life, the more data and therefore the more longevity. It's like you're creating more and more versus taking away.

Sari Tolvanen: Yeah, it's a win-win for everyone, because they have a sustainable source of income. So the more animals people see, the more money they will earn. And it's obviously better for the people, who value these experiences. It's quite depressing if you go somewhere and all the animals are gone. So-

James Sweetlove:  Yeah.

James Sweetlove:  It's by making small donations that equal a couple of drinks at the bar, you could start making a difference to these places that you love, yeah. It also teaches-

Sari Tolvanen:  Especially at the exchange rate in some of these places as well.

James Sweetlove: Yeah.

Nora Berman: Hmm. Yeah, that brings me to my next question, is what is the currency that this whole system operates on? Is it on crypto or on the blockchain or is it actual money?

Sari Tolvanen:  Yeah, so it's actual money. And at the moment, we're pricing these animal sightings in dollars, just 'cause it's the currency that most people can understand. But yeah, there is obviously possibilities to do crypto. At the moment, a lot of these communities can't access the crypto, which would be the problems. Because a lot of them don't even have normal bank accounts.

Nora Berman: Yeah.

Sari Tolvanen:  So it made it a bit, yeah, we have to kind of wait for these kind of digital currencies and others to be more spread. But we could, like a lot of these countries have their own kind of online currencies anyway and payment systems, so we can start integrating those at some point. So it's kind of not crypto, but they kind of digital-mobile-phone-used currency things. Yeah.

James Sweetlove: How large is the app's database? How many animals are actually loaded into the system to be recognized?

Sari Tolvanen: Yeah, so we are doing it like site by site at the moment. We haven't just gone and like tried to put everything in there. So when we get a new site, we add all the species that are relevant to that site. So I think we have like just over 200 key marine species from South Africa, from Kenya and from Indonesia, from Japan, some of these places that Ocean Eye is being used. And we're adding them on all the time as the sites come up and more species need to go up.

James Sweetlove:  I'm just curious on a personal level, whereabouts in South Africa is the site? 'Cause I'm originally from there.

Sari Tolvanen: Yeah, it's in Cape Town.

James Sweetlove: Oh.

James Sweetlove: Cool, okay.

Sari Tolvanen: Yeah, we have one there and then we have hopefully another site coming up in the east among LIGO-protected area, yeah.

James Sweetlove: Okay, wow, that's really exciting.

Nora Berman: Yeah.

Nora Berman: Do you see like this kind of model, could it extend into like plant life, or other areas of conservation?

Sari Tolvanen: Yeah, so definitely. I mean, we are doing this in the marine environment, because of my background and... it's easier for me to understand and know how conservation works in the marine environment. But this could definitely be taken over to terrestrial projects, terrestrial conservation, birdwatching, all of that.

Nora Berman: Yeah, birdwatching, because there's such a culture of that already.

Sari Tolvanen: Yeah, so I mean, there's a lot of applications in the terrestrial environment and then the concept is kind of ecosystem service payments where people are appreciating and paying for things that normally can't be monetized. And there's obviously a lot of other kind of nature experiences that we have, nature and spiritual experiences. People sometimes love their community tree. But the land is being sold and the tree is gonna go, because there's no funds for it. So maybe we could create a platform where people could set up their own kind of ecosystem service payment projects where on an ongoing basis, they can make small donations to keep some of the wildlife and nature near them alive. So yeah, there's a lot of different pathways. And there's also them, everybody's heard of carbon credits and the kind of carbon markets which is going crazy. And now there's gonna be, after their decisions in Montreal last year to protect 30% of their land and ocean by 2030, so now the nature credits for biodiversity is also being delivered and a lot of companies are gonna start wanting to have a positive impact on nature by buying nature credits. And Ocean Eye, for example, could be a platform for transferring and buying those. And we could prove that they're having an impact through the sightings that people have. So there's a lot of, yeah, there's a lot going on in biodiversity conservation and a lot of different applications, yeah.

James Sweetlove: I have noticed that there's a lot of companies that were doing carbon credits, now offering those diversity credits as well. It's like a secondary option on all of their websites where companies can invest directly in their biodiversity, which is really cool to see, I love that.

Sari Tolvanen:  Yeah.

James Sweetlove: So I know that you won an award recently. It was UpLink's Top Innovator Award. I'm a huge UpLink fan. I find a lot of our guests from the show actually by going through their site. I think they're fantastic. What they do is hugely impactful. Do you wanna just tell people a little bit about what that award means and how you won that?

Sari Tolvanen: Yeah, I applied for the Coastal Tourism Innovation competition and yeah, I was awarded and yeah, they've been incredibly helpful. Obviously, UpLink is part of that World Economic Forum network. So they kind of give you the long-term commitment in helping your business become successful. So I, for example, was invited to the B20 meeting in Indonesia with 3000 top CEOs from around the world, which is, there's a good networking opportunities. Yeah, whenever there is kind of tech or marine conferences, or meetings or events, they check if I'm going, if I need a place to present, if I have access to side events, to investors, et cetera. So it's, yeah, when you live in remote places, it can become difficult to network and kind of get yourself out there. And it's definitely kind of given me a platform to do that and be effective in doing that, rather than starting from the scratch, yeah.

James Sweetlove: I think they've helped a lot of people have a voice where they otherwise wouldn't, which is fantastic.

Sari Tolvanen:  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

James Sweetlove: What do you see as the future of tech and conservation? Do you see it playing an important role, like a key role, or do you see it as something that's just an aid to help in that space?

Sari Tolvanen: No, I definitely see a huge role. There's so much going on, even just in kind of the very narrow ocean conservation space that I have the time to keep an eye on. And yeah, it's quite expensive and time-consuming to do marine conservation. Because you have to go out at sea and often underwater. So that's why the science and the understanding, it's all like a generation behind what we know about the life on land. And technology can really help accelerate that. There's like new nanotechnology where you can just take a water sample and you know how many animals and what animals are within a couple of kilometers and things like that. So it's quite-

James Sweetlove: Whoa! How does that work?

Sari Tolvanen: Yeah, it's like DNA.

Nora Berman: That's crazy.

Sari Tolvanen:  Yeah and like normally, you would take weeks and weeks and weeks surveying and then a lot of the animals are scared of you, so you don't even end up seeing them and now you would get like a DNA imprint that they were there and yeah, it will help-

Nora Berman: Wow!

Sari Tolvanen:  Speed things up a lot, yeah.

James Sweetlove: Yeah, I saw that there's also a company that's developed underwater Wi-Fi that actually allows research teams to communicate underwater, which is really cool as well.

Sari Tolvanen:  Yeah.

James Sweetlove:  It's just, yeah, so much innovation.

Sari Tolvanen: Yeah and like I've worked in small-scale fisheries a lot and there's a lot of problems, 'cause you don't have internet connection far out at sea.

James Sweetlove: Mm-hmm .

Sari Tolvanen:  So they've always been disadvantaged in getting certification and traceability, 'cause they can't prove where they were when you're on a small boat-

James Sweetlove: Right.

Sari Tolvanen: Can't communicate and all these things. So, well, yeah, there's a lot that can be done with better connectivity and innovation, yeah.

James Sweetlove: Definitely.

James Sweetlove: And this is kind of going on our previous question, like how can an average person like contribute to marine conservation on a very basic level, or how can they get involved?

Sari Tolvanen: Yeah, well, I mean, the obvious one always is just to make sure where your seafood comes from. I kind of have a rule that I need to know the captain or I caught it myself, but it can be a bit difficult.

Nora Berman: Wow!

Sari Tolvanen:  So then at least find out that it's legal and you're not eating unsustainable or threatened species. So that's the first one. And then obviously, from the perspective of Ocean Eye, I think, people can just be pretty proactive when you go to nature places and you go on holidays and see how you can actually contribute to science and contribute to the communities and help support the conservation initiatives that are taking place there. So yeah, it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to take a lot of effort and doesn't have to take a lot of money. But if everybody just does their little part and helps, brings things along, then, yeah, it can make a difference.

James Sweetlove: Awesome.

Nora Berman:  Good, I'll keep that in mind. I don't really eat fish anyway, but.

James Sweetlove: My last question was, and I think, this is probably something that most conservation businesses or startups deal with that issue of what is the main misconception that you think people have around conservation?

Sari Tolvanen: Oh God! There's so many. But I guess, a lot of them often think that we just don't want any development, or any business or nothing. We just want closed nature areas and no entry. And obviously, there's part to that. There needs to be areas like this, so we can compare and leave some nature alone. But there's so many sustainable activities and businesses and development that we can bring to these areas that can kind of go hand-in-hand in conservation. And there are investment opportunities and there are technologies. And I think, there's a lot of win-wins that can be done if the conservationists are being brought into these projects early on, yeah.

James Sweetlove: Good to hear that. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Really appreciate you taking the time to talk with us. It's been fascinating.

Nora Berman: Yeah, really eye-opening and inspiring.

James Sweetlove:  Yeah, learned a lot. But last thing I just wanted to ask, is if people want to contribute, like to your actual, like find your website, or follow you on social media or any of that stuff, what's the best places to do that?

Sari Tolvanen: Yeah, so we have a website, oceaneye.io. And we are on Instagram at ocean_eye_app. And yeah, at the moment, the best thing for people is when they go on holidays, is just to encourage their operators to get in touch with us, so we can start introducing Ocean Eye to that area and ensure that people who go there can contribute.

James Sweetlove: Fantastic.

Sari Tolvanen:  Okay.

James Sweetlove: Yeah and for everyone listening, thank you for tuning in. Come back next week, we'll have another guest for you.