AI in Aquaculture: The Vertical Oceans Approach

Welcome to the CTRL+Listen Podcast! Today, we have a special guest, John Diener, the CEO and co-founder of Vertical Oceans, a groundbreaking automated aquaculture company.

In this episode, we dive into the innovative technology behind Vertical Oceans, a fully automated recirculating aquaculture system that uses AI to optimize and sustain shrimp farming. Learn how this revolutionary approach not only boosts efficiency but also ensures sustainability and superior product quality. Join us as we explore the intelligent habitat, AI-driven Tide OS, and the impact of AI on the future of food production.

Listen to the Episode:

Watch the Episode:

Episode Highlights:

• Role of AI in optimizing aquaculture processes
• Benefits of automated and sustainable seafood production
• Insights into the future of urban farming solutions
• The nuances of operating a startup in Singapore

Links:

Connect with John here

Learn more about Vertical Oceans here

Transcript:

James: Hey everyone, this is James from Octopart. This is the CTRL+Listen podcast. I'm here today with a special guest, John Diener. He is in charge as the CEO and co-founder of the automated aquaculture company, Vertical Oceans. If you haven't heard of that, don't worry. I hadn't heard too much about it, but it's a fascinating area. So we're gonna learn some more information today. John, thanks for coming on the show. Great to have you.

John: Yeah, it's great to be here. I'm really excited to be on the Control List podcast 'cause I watch your show sometimes, and so it's great to be a guest on the show as well.

James: I appreciate that. Thank you. So, just to get started, do you wanna maybe explain to people what Vertical Oceans does, what the company's about?

John: Yeah, so, Vertical Oceans is a fully automated recirculating aquaculture technology. We'll get into a little bit more about what that means in terms of technology. But basically it's a giant biocomputer with an AI native software application wrapped around a biological production system. This makes it extremely efficient and optimized. For us, efficiency and sustainability go hand in hand because they're two sides of the same coin. So it's also very sustainable. We currently grow shrimp, although our technology approach could be applied to growing other crops as well. Fundamentally our technology is based around what we call the intelligent habitat or IAB for short. The IAB is a modular growing tank about the size of a school bus, similar dimensions to a 20-foot container, although it's not identical. It's a fully self-contained autonomous production unit.

James: Wow. How long have you had that AI system operating with the technology?

John: We implemented it in stages. Everybody talks about AI these days. We differentiate between machine learning and AI. Machine learning algorithms are more like modeling structured equations based on historical data. We've had machine learning algorithms from day one, but the AI has been operating for about a year now in various forms. We continue to iterate and optimize it. It took a long time to develop. It's a complex model, but very powerful.

James: Fascinating. It's exciting to see AI touching industries people wouldn't even think of, like aquaculture. You don't typically associate machine learning or AI with agriculture, but there you go. Some complex stuff operating.

John: Yeah, absolutely. A lot of the focus of AI is on large language models, but there are many interesting models. There's been research using AI models on basic principles of chemistry to come up with new potential chemical reactions or proteins. Although large language models get a lot of attention, other powerful applications of AI are being explored in our system as well.

James: Before we dive deeper into the tech side, could you talk a little about aquaculture as an industry? How does aquaculture differ from agriculture?

John: Aquaculture is interesting because it's one of the largest food production methods and also one of the oldest, with evidence of aquaculture ponds in China going back three to four thousand years. It's essentially growing crops in water, whereas traditional agriculture is growing crops on land. The crops are varied, from fish to crustaceans like shrimp and crab, to plants like seaweed. Over 50% of all seafood consumed now comes from aquaculture. There are different models within aquaculture, like open ocean cages, coastal ponds, or closed recirculating systems like ours. Recirculating systems use a constant filtration loop, making them more efficient and allowing production in controlled environments, which is increasingly important due to climate change.

James: That's exciting. Does this indoor, recirculated water system allow landlocked cities or countries to have their own aquaculture industries?

John: Yes, absolutely. We create artificial sea water, so we're location agnostic. Our system can be set up in landlocked countries or areas with minimal water. We use less water than a restaurant does daily, making it highly efficient. For example, our system could be set up in a landlocked country like Switzerland or in water-scarce regions like the Middle East or Arizona.

James: That's amazing. How have you managed supply chain issues? Has it been easy to get the actual food to consumers?

John: When we first started in 2020 during Covid, restaurants were closed, so we had to create a direct-to-consumer model. There was no efficient last mile logistics solution for chilled products, so we developed a hybrid model. We've been selling direct-to-consumer for over three years now, along with supplying restaurants and some retail. Initially, it was challenging, but we've streamlined the process and now have a fully automated logistics platform.

James: Your company seems innovative and unique. Is there anything else about the system you want to explain?

John: In addition to the IHAB and the mechanical aspects, there's a whole bioengineering side. We manage the microbial ecosystem in the water to recreate a sustainable oceanic ecosystem. We use metagenomics to profile microorganisms and developed our own probiotic. We also grow macro algae as part of the recirculating system, which helps manage ammonia levels. One of the algae we grow, asparagus, can reduce methane production in cows by up to 90%.

James: That's really cool. I understand a lot of what you're talking about because I keep a tropical reef coral tank at home, so I get the ammonia levels and ecosystem microbacteria. I can't imagine doing it on an industrial scale though.

John: Yes, it's much more complex on a larger scale. We cover all the bodies of water to minimize evaporation. The enclosed environment helps maintain humidity and reduces evaporative loss, making the system very water-efficient. Growing up in water-scarce areas, we pay close attention to water use and ensure we're not wasting it.

James: Do you think water supply will become a major source of conflict in the next hundred years?

John: Yes, I think sources of freshwater will shift with climate change, and it will become a major issue. The question is whether we can develop more efficient technologies for utilizing ocean water. Countries without access to the ocean could face significant challenges, and water could become a source of stress and conflict, similar to how oil has been in the past century.

James: I've been reading a lot about this, and it's definitely a growing problem. In some major population centers in India, they're already in deep trouble with fresh drinking water supplies.

John: Yes, I was in Cape Town when they ran out of water, and it was an eye-opening experience. You take water for granted until you don't have it. It taught us to be more thoughtful about resource use. At Vertical Oceans, we're obsessed with efficiency, which drives us to continuously improve our system.

James: It's awesome to see that mindset in your company. You're very conscious of what your company gives back to the world and what it takes out of it.

John: Absolutely. We also focus on the welfare of the animals. We treat them with respect and aim to minimize stress at different life stages. Our animal welfare standards are higher than the standard for shrimp in almost every dimension. We're obsessed with every aspect of what we do, constantly seeking improvements.

James: Never stop innovating. Could you talk about being based in Singapore as a tech startup?

John: We often get asked why we started in Singapore. It's a good location with supportive government policies for startups. The government has a goal to produce 30% of its food locally by 2030, and we're part of that program. There are challenges, like accessing materials and high energy costs, but these constraints can also be opportunities. Singapore is proactive in embracing technology as part of its future.

James: Every time I've been to Singapore, it feels like the future. The city embodies what people envisioned decades ago.

John: Exactly. The high energy and water costs force us to be more efficient. Some constraints are actually beneficial, pushing us to innovate.

James: Are they still developing vertical farming systems in Singapore?

John: There have been some vertical farms developed, but the high energy costs make it challenging. For higher value crops like strawberries, vertical farming can work. Some systems have been successful, but overall, the energy equation is tough to balance economically in Singapore.

James: That makes sense. As we wrap up, is there anything exciting coming up for your company?

John: Yes, we're expanding in Singapore to a large commercial scale facility and will start construction later this year. We'll also be entering the US and Japan markets in the next 12 to 24 months. Additionally, we're going to publish some of our research for others to benefit from. Keep an eye on our updates on LinkedIn and our website.

James: Awesome. Where can people follow your updates?

John: Follow us on LinkedIn and check out our website at verticaloceans.blue. For those in Singapore, you can buy our shrimp at shop.verticaloceans.blue. We'll be publishing updates there.

James: Thank you so much for coming on the show, John. It's been fascinating talking to you and learning about aquaculture.

John: It was great to talk to you. I loved the interview with Phil, trying to learn about PCB design. It was cool to see who Phil is, as you never see his face in the videos.

James: Super nice guy, very talented. Thanks again, John. For everyone listening, thank you and tune in next week.